It is 60 years since the Recruitment Agreement was concluded between Turkey and the Federal Republic of Germany. What is your assessment, looking back over these 60 years?

The 60^th anniversary of the Recruitment Agreement with Turkey is an opportunity for us in Germany to express our appreciation above all for the people of the first generation. That first generation played a significant part in building up our country and ensuring its economic success. Those people came because we invited them. Because we needed them. We owe them a great deal. With their help, our country became economically stronger and more prosperous, and our society became more open and more diverse. Germany is a country of immigration, and because we want to remain a strong and prosperous country, immigration remains necessary.

The people who arrived from Turkey have in addition shaped relations between our two countries. Today Germany and Turkey enjoy a unique relationship. “Benzersiz bir iliski”, a unique relationship: this description encompasses the positive aspects as well as problems and challenges.

How were the families received in Germany back then? Was there, in your view, a culture of welcome?

The reception was mixed. In the beginning, many of the workers were undervalued or even treated with disdain. Many met with mistrust from their colleagues and neighbours. There is no sugarcoating that. The stories we are hearing again in this anniversary year are heart‑breaking. From the outset, however, there was also help, support and solidarity, for example from the trade unions and companies. I know from talking to people from that first generation that they got help from many German neighbours and colleagues. And in the longer term, too, we have seen that mutual respect and curiosity about a different culture helped both sides to overcome misgivings or even fears. The readiness to shed narrow-minded nationalism and cultural arrogance, to approach and open up to others, to learn from each other – these are the best prerequisites for peaceful coexistence.

Were the guest workers and their children born in Germany neglected? And why do you think that for so long there was little progress on integrating the guest workers?

For a long time, there was no focus on integration. The assumption was that the people would go back to their country of origin in two or three years. There was a lack of language courses, of support services. There was no real integration policy and therefore no real integration. Many people from Turkey remained on the margins of German society for far too long. Politicians and society took much too long to realise that the so‑called guest workers were neither guests nor simply workers. Today the people who arrived back then have become a part of Germany, with their children, grandchildren and great‑grandchildren.

Do you believe there is still a problem with the integration of people with Turkish roots? If so, where is the deficit? 

Today citizens with Turkish roots are part of German society, part of an active civic community. We are working together to shape our country’s future. Today immigrants, their children and grandchildren work in factories and also in research institutions, as artists and musicians, as entrepreneurs, or as creators of vaccines who are making the key contribution to fighting the COVID-19 pandemic worldwide. They are judges and public prosecutors; as members of parliament, state secretaries or ministers they hold key posts for our state based on the rule of law, for our freedom and our democracy. This not only illustrates the opportunities open to them, but is at the same time hugely enriching for society.

However, we can and must do even better at ensuring equal opportunities for social advancement. Pupils with a migration background are five times more likely to leave school with no qualifications than their classmates with no migration background. If this inequality in opportunities persists, 60 years on from the signing of the Recruitment Agreement, then our state is duty bound to correct the failings of the past.

For a long time Germany did not accept that it is a country of immigration. Do you think Germany lost something as a result?

Our country has changed as a result of immigration, and so the meaning of the word “German” is also changing. Being German today can mean that your grandparents come from Cologne or Kaliningrad, or equally that they come from Istanbul or Diyarbakır. Everyone who wants to live in peace and harmony in our country for a long time is German. We should no longer point to individuals with a migration background. Because we are a country with a migration background.

You have said that the children of Bosnian and Turkish families should become not only unskilled workers and doormen, but also heads of state institutions. To what extent has this happened? Where do you see Germany’s Turks in 60 years’ time?

Today we are seeing more and more people, women and men, whose families come from Turkey or other countries in the media, in parliaments, at universities and in company management. These people are role models. They are an encouragement to young people: “You can do this too!” Many families wanted, and still want, to give their children a better life, and took the promise of social advancement through work and education seriously. Children and grandchildren of the first generation have completed a good vocational education or obtained a degree. They are rightly proud of the road they have travelled. These successes need to become even more normal, even more widespread at all levels of society. I hope that soon all people in our country will have the opportunity to realise their goals.

You have conferred the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany on the founders of BioNTech, Prof. Özlem Türeci and Prof. Ugur Sahin. What were your feelings at the ceremony? Did you have the opportunity to get to know the two?

I admire the achievements of these two German scientists. Their vaccine is helping to save lives across the world. As President of the Federal Republic of Germany, I am of course proud to have them here. They are both wonderful illustrations of all that has happened since the early days of the Recruitment Agreement, and of the possibilities open to people in Germany. And so I was delighted to present these two outstanding scientists and impressive people with the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany.

What lies in store for Turkish-German relations? How do you think relations will develop in the long term? In what areas can Germany build up a positive relationship with Turkey, despite existing differences?

We enjoy a unique connection with Turkey, not only thanks to the personal ties. Its size, geographical situation and political weight mean that it is a strategically important partner for Germany. We are alliance partners within NATO. The decision to begin accession negotiations with the European Union was taken 15 years ago. This path has proven longer and more complex than presumably either of us would have wished. Many developments in Turkey have filled us with concern in recent years. However, it is clear that what is happening in and with Turkey can never be a matter of indifference to us in Germany. The same applies vice versa, of course. In many areas, concrete cooperation between our countries is in our shared interest – for example, how we deal with refugees and migrants, or how to respond to recent developments in Afghanistan.

You visited Turkey as a young student. What image did you have of Turkey then, and what impressions did you take back home with you?

Turkey was a fascinating country even then. The particular friendliness and hospitality extended to you as a German made a great impression on me. I decided then to go back to Turkey often – and I’m happy to say that I have managed to do so.

You have visited Turkey often since. How has the country changed?

Of course Turkey today is much more modern. It has developed faster and further than many Germans realise even now. At the same time, I see a growing polarisation in Turkish society, just as we see in some societies in the European Union. A polarisation in which people who hold different opinions are being attacked more and more as enemies. That is not good for democracy.

How harmful are the right-wing populist and right-wing extremist tendencies in some EU countries?

I am horrified when people whose skin colour, language or religion is different become targets of hatred and hate-mongering, when they are attacked either on the internet or on the street. The victims of the despicable murders by the NSU, the dead in Mölln, Solingen and Hanau, are victims of a hatred which has its roots in the midst of Germany, in the midst of our society. That said, the violence is perpetrated by an extremist minority, but precisely for that reason we must do our utmost to combat it, because it must not be allowed to poison our country. Similarly, we are concerned at extremist tendencies in Turkey, too. Sometimes the language used in talking about Europe and the Europeans is hate-filled. This can lead to nothing good, and has nothing to do with the reality of our partnership. Xenophobia is hatred directed against human beings. And we must not tolerate such hatred.